Thuy-Tien Le
Sasha Sobol: What are your definitions of “man” and “woman?”
Thuy-Tien Le: My definitions of a man and a woman pretty much changed a lot since I was little because when I was little, I thought that it’s mostly that a man is someone who has male parts and a woman is someone who has female parts. But upon entering high school and being more open-minded to more ideas, I guess I now define a man as someone who identifies as a man and a woman as someone who identifies as a woman.
SS: Are there any gender roles that you think should exist and are there any that you wish weren’t there?
TL: I don’t think any gender roles should exist in general because I feel like both genders could be equal, so having gender roles there will limit a gender [in] what you can do and stuff.
SS: Do you conform to society’s gender expectations?
TL: I guess so, to some point I do conform because sometimes when I’m in PE and stuff and we’re playing soccer or something, and a girl is like “pass me the ball” and some guy is like “pass me the ball, I would most likely pick the guy ‘cause gender roles kid of give guys more power over females. So, to some point I do, but I try not to.
SS: Is there anything that you do that is not typically associated with your gender?
TL: I guess so. Sometimes, like when I was little. Most girls played with Barbies and stuff, and that was mostly a girl thing, but when I was little, I hated Barbies. Like, I would start crying when I see them. So, when I was little, I played more with cars and I’m more of a video game person than a shopping person and I guess that’s not really a trait that’s identified as female.
SS: For the parts where you do conform, is it more because society expects you to or because that’s just who you are?
TL: I guess it’s part of both. For most time, I don’t really care what society thinks of me and I just kind of act on my own terms, but then for other parts, I’m like, well, I’m afraid society is going to judge me for what I do, so maybe I should act a little more female-ish. And that’s somewhat it, too.
SS: The next question is about two situations and I’m going to tell you what they are and ask you what you think about them. So, the first one is that a lot of the time when it’s socially acceptable for a man to expose his chest, a woman has to cover hers and there are laws in some places that prohibit women from showing their chests in public. The second situation is that when it’s acceptable for women to show their arms, legs, and cleavage, like when they’re wearing dresses and in other formal situations, men can’t do that. What do you think about that?
TL: I think there’s a reason to why that is. We, males and females have different body parts and for some people, a woman’s chest might be sexual, but for some people it might not, but it is understandable, I don’t know... I guess it’s understandable, but thinking about it, it’s not really fair, is it?
SS: Do you think the laws should be there?
TL: It depends on how society thinks about it. If it becomes not a sexual thing for a woman to just be walking around with her shirt off, then I guess the laws should be taken away, but right now if I’m walking on the street and I just see a woman wearing pants, no shirt, I would probably take it as she’s a very sexual person.
SS: What about the second situation with formal wear and the restrictions that are placed on men?
TL: For formal wear, I don’t really think it’s a really fair thing for guys because I feel like guys, they have a lot going on for them because of being afraid of being judged as being gay or something, because it is sometimes acceptable for a guy to show his arms and legs and stuff, but it wouldn’t really mark them as the most masculine person out there. And I don’t think that should be something that they should be judged for.
SS: The next question kind of relates to feminine men being judge. Basically, how society is okayer with masculine women and girls than feminine men and boys. Why do you think that is and why do you think femininity is valued as less than masculinity?
TL: Well, I think it’s mostly the society that defines it, because the society, I guess, guys are supposedly viewed as having more power and being more in control and being the stronger of the two genders. And for a guy to be less masculine and society just kind of points at them like “hey! You’re not the strongest guy there! you’re not the most in-control guy,” and they start looking down on the guy because he’s not what society expects him to be. And, for a girl, it’s more like “hey, we’re the weaker gender” and no one really expects much out of girls, so when a girl’s masculine, or more masculine than [the average girl], then society kind of accepts that more than guys because I think society has more expectation out of guys.
SS: How do you think that relates to discrimination in the workplace?
TL: Well it relates to discrimination because well like I feel like people like having more guys in the workplace because they expect more out of guys than women, which I don’t think is fair because I feel like both genders are supposed to be equal because it is equality.
SS: Do you think it’s important to make the world a more welcoming place to gender nonconforming people? If your answer is yes, how do you think this can be done?
TL: Of course, I think it should obviously be made more welcome and to advocate this, I guess we should use less gender [specific] terms, like he or boy or she. I think we should use terms that kind of like identify with both genders.
SS: Is there anything else you would like to add?
TL: We should stop judging people. Just let them be the way they want to be.
Note: This interview was done in person.
